When every last union job in this country is lost to China, India, Pakistan, Russia, Japan, and a long list you might think again :)

Tonto, I've come to the conclusion that you are just a miserable unhappy human being who hates his life. When you spout off your party line about Unions, at least research your data. More jobs have been lost due to corporate greed and unfair trade agreements than were ever lost to Union wages. Thank God the Unions set a standard to achieve with liveable wages, health care, safety standards, and vacation benefits. Personally I would rather not work my entire life to wind up retired poor so the almighty shareholder can get their 20% dividend.

Zero,
If unions are that great for workers, then what is wrong with giving them the ability to stay or leave the union? Seems like you wouldn't worry about them leaving. Also, why should taxpayers pay union workers on strike unemployment? Seems like voluntarily choosing not to do your job is not being unemployed. Stay with the union if you are happy, don't impose it on me.

@Tammy L: "...I wonder how republicans such as Haley feel about the Firefighters Union..."

more importantly do they realize unions is the tide that rose all ships...have made the middle class.

probably not as their concern is increasing the wealth of the 1%-ers...

Here is an interesting perspective of unions and how early on in many counties they were used to discriminate against black workers. Also, for you 1 percenters (Stanley) an interesting view of how greed has feed more people than charity ever has.

http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/articles/12/ILoveGreed
http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/articles/12/InGreedITrust
So far as people in firefighter unions or in other unions that protect us, I feel the same way as I would for anybody who makes good money, has safe working conditions and takes regular breaks and do not belong to a union (which is almost all workers in SC)

Dr. John. Interesting links. Fallacious, but interesting and well written. My favorite was this line

"There are many examples from around the world of how people have used legal and extralegal means to thwart people trying to get more for themselves, or what I like to call greed. The suppression of these motives has always worked against the best interest of discriminated-against people."

Always? How do you think this man would reconcile his statement with the greed of slavery? How has suppression of the greed of slavery worked against the best interest of the discriminated-against people?

I though his theory on greed was flawed too. He may not be talking about fraud, theft, dishonesty, lobbying for special privileges from government or other forms of despicable behavior, but those are real components of greed and we see them everyday. His free market capitalism, or "Utopian" capitalism if you will, is just as impossible as Utopian communism and for the same reasons. Lazy hippies AND sociopath capitalists BOTH need to be regulated in modern society.

@JoSCh: '"Utopian" capitalism if you will, is just as impossible as Utopian communism and for the same reasons. Lazy hippies AND sociopath capitalists BOTH need to be regulated in modern society."'

COMMENT
same said another way: "no reg free markets" only work where there are no greedy bastards...only good boys and girls (nirvana and utopia)...in fact communism and the Christian religion would probably work too...if there were no bad guys...eg, no kochs

why is my comment up for deletion?

EL, are you asking why you can see a "Delete" button on your post and no one else's? Because it is your post and you can delete it if you want to. You cannot delete another's post but you can delete your own.

Racist!

@Jim Minkler: "...a muslim or is it hindu...

actually Sikhism...which is more Christian then Christian...except for their treatment of women...

@Dr. John: "Racist"

sometime hard to tell who is being sarcastic...

I enjoy sarcasm, however Jim was using sarcasm trying to claim he is not racist by comparing himself to a group of people (conservative/republicans) who he believes all are racist. I do not accept his premise, sarcastic or serious. For people to think of one group as EXCLUSIVELY racist would lead me to believe that he uses a racial tinted lense to view people. That I do not accept, and believe to be racist in and of itself

Jim,
Sarcasm, by nature is sometimes difficult to detect at times but racism isn't.

@Dr. John: "...You seem to think that racism, especially against blacks, belongs exclusively to the republican party..."

COMMENT
i dont think anyone said or implied racism belonged to the GOPs...however GOPs use the fact that it exist to win elections...eg;

the willie horton ads and the current voterID law.

they have used it, at least, since the 60s. LBJ said after signing civil rights legislation: "the DEMs have lost the South"...well something like that.

it's time the DEMs took it back.

Dr. John, surely you are aware of the ideological swap by the Democrats and Republicans after WWII and particularly during the civil rights movement, when southern Democrats saw their party moving left into the mainstream of America. You trying to prove that modern Democrats are derived from those Democrats is disingenuous at best. Quit attempting to portray yourself and people like you as the victim.

@JoSCh: "...modern Democrats are derived from those Democrats is disingenuous..."

COMMENT
the modern GOPs of the South are more "derived" (by way of the dixiecrats and strom thurmond) from the jim crow, poll tax, DEMs...eg, the voter ID law is another poll tax.

@ stan
I know. I didn't think it was necessary to point that out.

Also, the voter ID law is a safeguard to ensure that ONLY American citizens vote, which is not unreasonable. My solution is to simply issue state ID to all adults who want one, they aren't expensive and the vast majority of American adults already pay for the ID so it wouldn't add significant cost to the tax base. But even if we continue on this model, it is only technically a poll tax? The same way that technically Democrats were racists 80 years ago. Pay the $5 fee for a damn ID card if voting is important to you, you should have an ID anyway..

@JoSCh: "...the voter ID law is a safeguard to ensure that ONLY American citizens vote, which is not unreasonable."

voterID laws are as unreasonable as the KPL...and they are motivated by the same force that devised poll tax and literacy test (my opine)

the issue is not how cheap nor how easy IDs are obtainable...the issue is race DNA used to gain a political advantage.

my heartburn is the bs (similar to KPL bs) to sell voterID to the public...it's a political tactic to reduce BO/DEM voter turnout...and GOP movers/shakers prey on the lingering racist DNA...similar to lee atwater's willie horton ads.

the same gang who strongly opposed the 2005 Real ID law...which might have provided all with IDs...are now enthusiastically advocating for the current voterID law...any connection to BO's election, you think...

there is no individual voter fraud at the ballot box...except that planted, by the kochs, in the mind of the BO haters.

apologies for ad nauseam reference to the kochs...they are the easy epitome of what wrong with our political system...our democracy.

JoSch
Here are your modern day democrats in 2001 Senator Byrd was forced to apologize for using the "N-word" on television,
Democrat Senator Christopher Dodd praised Senator Robert Byrd as someone who would have been "a great senator for any moment," including the Civil War; yet Democrats denounced Senator Trent Lott for his remarks about Senator Strom Thurmond who was never in the Ku Klux Klan and, after he became a Republican, defended blacks against lynching and the discriminatory poll taxes imposed on blacks by Democrats,
Democrat Senator Ted Kennedy who called black judicial nominees "Neanderthals;" Democrat Senator Harry Reid who slurred Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas as someone who could not write good English; Joe Biden while he was a Senator who boasted that his home state of Delaware was a slave state; Democratic Party operatives who depicted Michael Steele as a "Simple Sambo;" (e) cartoonist Jeff Danziger and Pat Oliphant who portrayed Secretary of State Dr. Condoleezza Rice a bare foot, "Ignorant Mammy;" Democratic Senator John F. Kerry who denounced affirmative action on the floor of the Senate in the 1990's; President Bill Clinton who refused to enforce a court-ordered affirmative action plan while president and was himself sued for discriminating against his black employees while he was the Governor of Arkansas; Barack Hussein Obama while he was an Illinois State senator who as a US senator voted against the minimum wage bill.

The lady doth protest too much methinks.

Your copy and paste list is cute. Would an equal or even more damning copy paste of racist Republicans prove anything? Some of the men on the list you posted are racists or said racist remarks in spite of the fact that they're Democrats, not because of it. And some of the "racism" just wasn't, regardless of what the NAACP or ALCU says.

I get it, you're a Republican and you don't like to think of yourself as a racist or be associated with racists. Fair enough, who would. Quit defending racists and racist policies. Quit trying to lump everyone in with a few bad apples, and quit trying to spin pre-civil rights Democrats as the predecessor to today's Democrats, because they aren't and you know it.

@JoSCh: "...motivations aren't even a consideration..."

COMMENT
motivations are the only consideration...the motivation is voter suppression, thus giving the GOPs an advantage.

re: frustrated by past transgressions

999...it's about the 2012 election...but it probably wont made any difference...BO will be reelected in a landslide...it's another barry goldwater year for the GOP...tho it could tip the scales in other elections.

it will be declared unconstitutional...and maybe the kochs have misplayed the race card...it may just P BO voters off and they will turn out in unprecedented numbers.

so guess the best action here is to agree to disagree...as they say in the old country...

it is tomorrows (2012) problems, it was yesterdays as well...so we return to those thrilling days of yesteryear.

Ah yes Stanley. Oblamers United States of Greece/Portugal. Happily modeling the country after failed bankrupt European Socialism (aka new and improved communism). It will be such hope and change :)

I searched and search and came up only with failed Oblamer style European socialist collapse and failure. Looks like i was right to begin with. The United States of Greece/Portugal won't work :)

@tonto: "...Looks like i was right to begin with. The United States of Greece/Portugal won't work :)"

looks like you live on another planet...but if you provide specific references i may joint you and vote for the GOPs...

there are more successful social democracies than failures...eg, germany, poland, and most of the Scandinavians countries...(BTW they all have universal health care and are in europe)

and the evidence of failed "no reg free market" are the 1929 depression and the 2008 recession.

still looking for refs (links) to support yo position economy does better under GOPs...also, would narrow the discussion if we discussed the USA vice europe...which is a distraction.

more googling will shed light on the policies of DEMs/GOPs...pls provide links...most i find donot support the policies of 1929 and 2008.

oh/and re: I [tonto] searched and search and came up only with failed Oblamer style European socialist collapse and failure...

pls provide your seach results...ie, links which support your position...

Gee, I wonder why Oblamer, Pelosi, and Reiddiboy are so quiet on their beloved Occupooers? Just what happened to the DNC's little Occupeeee diversion ?

Your supposed to hit me with endless paragraphs of meaningless driblle and links to liberal lie websites. What gives. Do I need to misspell some words to get you hot big fella?

Sorry I mentioned Occupee. I didn't think you guys were so sensitive about it :)

I was just wondering what was up with the democrats silence on the great Occupy diversion they created. They came out in such strong support of it. Now they don't talk about it after the DNC tried to make it go away. Just curious. I think they should have started Occupy the black hole for money Department of Education instead. The Dept of Education makes Wall Street look like a kids birthday party compared to the huge tax rip off by the megolithic system of waste and fraud in our school systems :)

Sorry to ruff up your gigantic intellect genius. I sure you are chuck full of poiginantic brainy crap :)