Speak Out: Should Women Be Allowed on Front Lines?
The Pentagon is set to change its policy on women on the front lines.
While women have been allowed to serve the military in a number of positions — nearly all of them, in fact — they have always been prohibited from serving on the frontlines.
What do you think? Are you happy for the change?
Joe
5:54 pm on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
This has to be the dumbest question ever asked. Why shouldn't they be on the front lines?
maizenbluedoc
6:09 pm on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
Women will never be considered as equals until they are allowed to do the same jobs that men do, regardless of the risks. Other countries allow women to be in combat roles. I know that for a fact from my tour in Viet Nam. The NVA women were just as deadly as the men.
Robert Kelly
7:11 pm on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
It's an all-volunteer force, so why not?
If we ever go back to a draft, this will become more of a controversial issue.
Sammy
12:55 am on Thursday, January 24, 2013
Remember the Equal Rights Amendment that was brought up in the 1970's and failed to get enough votes to pass? Remember when one Congressman said that women should be drafted into the military the same as men? Remember how all the feminists started screaming hoi that was unfair to women, all they wanted was to be treated as equals, paid as much as men were being paid. But, NO, not to be forced to serve their country and certainly not in front line combat. Frankly, I love this idea as long overdue.
Lindsay Street
8:07 am on Thursday, January 24, 2013
I say yes with a caveat: women should be held to the same standards as their male peers. Women should not be held to a lower standard if they expect be treated equally.
Many military and public sector jobs allow women to lift less and do less. This is unacceptable and actually damages the ability for women to be treated equally (why would a frontline soldier want to work next to someone who was held to a lower standard and isn't expected to carry as much weight or run as fast?).
It may mean fewer women make it to the front lines. But not every man is suited for the task either.
Tom Utley
3:58 pm on Thursday, January 24, 2013
I agree whole-heartedly.
Richard Hayes
10:12 am on Thursday, January 24, 2013
I was on active duty for 32 years and retired as a Colonel. The Air Force has had women on the front line for years - They are pilots of fighters and bombers, they are maintenance enlisted and officers at the front line airfields. They have provided great service and have been a credit to themselves and the United States Air Force. And for the same job, Lindsay, they have the same qualifications. I salute their continued performance!
Mary Grady
11:01 am on Thursday, January 24, 2013
Sammy, your memory of the 70's seems to be a little murky. I was a feminist then (still am) and never screamed any of the nonsense you're spouting. (Neither did my friends.) At the time, I was applying to the City of Charleston Police Department and full expected to be treated the same as a man. In fact, when I was presented with preferential treatment, I demanded equal treatment for equal pay and received it. There is no reason a woman would be unsuitable for combat if trained properly, just as we train the men. This separation is archaic and I'm thrilled to see it abolished.
Lindsay Street
11:35 am on Thursday, January 24, 2013
Feminist and proud here too, Mary! I'd love to hear more about your experience with CPD.
Richard, I agree with the USAF way of handling things (they do a lot of things right!). What I'm referring to is the Army (and others) expecting women to only do 40-some pushups to her male peer's 70-some pushups. It creates resentment and could be dangerous on the battlefield when on the frontlines.
Like you, I'm proud of our women in uniform and applaud their service. I just want them to be held to the same standard when they are on the frontlines for everyone's safety.
Mary Grady
5:47 pm on Thursday, January 24, 2013
Lindsay, you are 100% about resentment to preferential treatment. When I demanded to be treated the same, my captain nearly stroked, but the attitudes of the men in my squad and my NCO's changed significantly.
Tom Utley
3:58 pm on Thursday, January 24, 2013
I say: Why not?
If women want to go get blown up by an IED in some desert on the other side of the world in an unconstitutional war, be my guest.
C
4:52 pm on Thursday, January 24, 2013
Why not? Equal rights for all.
John H
5:34 pm on Thursday, January 24, 2013
If the soldiers in front line units are for it, then it’s a welcome change and long overdue.
Jonathan Allen
6:19 pm on Thursday, January 24, 2013
This may be a first on the internet, a political discussion thread where everyone actually agrees with each other. Of course now that I've pointed that out, someone will invariably come in with a contrary opinion just to ruin it.
stanley seigler
7:08 pm on Thursday, January 24, 2013
progress maybe
stanley seigler
7:16 pm on Thursday, January 24, 2013
PS
times/attitudes do/have change/ed...maybe a change in gun control positions is on the horizon...maybe racism will cease to exist...hope springs
Mary Grady
8:26 pm on Thursday, January 24, 2013
Sorry, but I think the reason for less dissension here is the quality of your readership. Perhaps a more progressive crowd. I say this because there was a similar discussion on the Charleston Post & Courier Facebook page and it was not as "progressive". I read arguments against women that were used 40 years ago and, sadly, they were made by women. Apparently, no matter how much and well the rest of us evolve, there are still some who are standing behind the door and missing the ride into the future. I had to put up with too much nonsense when I became a police officer to back down on my stance now.
Tom Utley
9:26 am on Friday, January 25, 2013
Racism won't cease to exist as long as there are race pimps out there to play the victim card :-)
Dr. John
9:03 pm on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
A senior Defense Department official said the ban on women in combat should be lifted because the military’s goal is "to provide a level, gender-neutral playing field." I thought the goal of the military is to provide the most effective fighting force that can project strength the quickest in the most devistating way to combat enemies and to deter future threats. To accept this premise and assume that "boots on the ground" are neccesary to achieve these goals, then women on the front lines, will not aid this objective. If the goal is a gender neutral military, then why are there lower fitness goals for women vs. men. This means that a man can be disqulified for lack of physical fitness from the service, but a woman, with the same push up, sit up and 2 mile run scores can serve. Why is the man being "discriminated" against in this case. So, why are there different standards for females? Well, the "USMC Women in the Service Restrictions Review” found that women, on average, have 20 percent lower aerobic power, 40 percent lower muscle strength, 47 percent less lifting strength and 26 percent slower marching speed than men. Elaine Donnelly, director of the Center for Military Readiness, points to U.S. Army studies showing that women are twice as likely to suffer injuries and are three times more undeployable than men. All measures of physical aggressiveness show that men are more aggressive, competitive and hostile than women. Men are clearly more effective in combat.
Dr. John
9:15 pm on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
Also,
Where is the gender-neutral playing feild in the military when it comes to selective service. Can the draft not be gender-neutral? This feel-good, gender-neutral stuff all changes once we demand our teenage daughters to sign up for selective service to qualify for student loans, government employment or assistance. Let's run this equality business for the full length of the playing feild and not just for the touchdown dance in the end zone.
GunnyHighway
9:05 pm on Thursday, January 24, 2013
This is a case of policy catching up with reality. Women have been performing front line duty for a long time, on the ground and in the air. It's about time they got official recognition for it.
stanley seigler
10:27 pm on Thursday, January 24, 2013
re: policy catching up with reality.
agree but sad some/many are denied equality/recognition waiting on policy to catch up with reality...
as or more unfortunate are society's attitudes (of a minority) that defy reality...which have and continue to cause untold frustration/suffering.
that some pander to and profit on the status quo attitudes is criminal...
hopefully policy/attitudes will not be delayed in other areas...ie, reality will not be denied...
so many changes in positions then and now...eg, slavery in the days when the constitution was written...women not allowed to vote...
so many on the wrong side of history then and now...
Mary Grady
11:10 am on Friday, January 25, 2013
@Tom Utley -
Or people who insist on meeting them with nasty insulting comments that only serve to fan the negative emotionality of the situation. When did snotty juvenile snipes replace honest, calm discourse as a way of discussing a topic? It serves no proactive purpose and only ramps up the reactive atmosphere. We can't move forward until we grow up.
JoSCh
11:21 am on Friday, January 25, 2013
In Toms defense, it was my fault he did it.
JoSCh
11:43 am on Friday, January 25, 2013
I'm not coming in to be contrary on purpose, even if that is on occasion my M.O. but I would point out that there are real issues that will happen out in the field. Mixed gender environments mean that sooner rather than later someone will fall in love with a team member and it DOES affect unit cohesion.
When I served I was deployed on units that were all male, male except for a relative few officers, and mixed crew. The mixed crew unit was by far the least effective, least efficient and not in-consequently the most pregnant and the most fractured due to jealousy. Personal experience tells me that there will be challenges.
With that said, I applaud the military for continuing to progress and know that they are prepared to meet these challenges. They're maddeningly slow to some, maddeningly progressive to others, and excessively controlled by politics currently but at the end of the day I think their progressive conservatism is probably the most effective way to implement these inevitable changes.
/Patton'd it
Mary Grady
1:48 pm on Friday, January 25, 2013
Sorry, I don't agree! That's a command problem. When I met my husband, he was one of my sergeants. We dated and married and at work, he was always my sergeant. This was long enough ago that they did not have any sort of policy relative to anything on this topic and my husband and I knew that we were what would establish policy. They allowed us to stay in the same squad because of the professionalism that we maintained at work. There was nothing in the rules to prohibit them from re-assigning one of us if we failed so we made sure we didn't fail. To paraphrase an old military saying, "if the military wanted you to have a spouse, they would issue you a spouse." Basically, on duty, a relationship of any sort should not be tolerated. It has no purpose in the situation and the partied involved should understand this. Otherwise, there's always transfer.
JoSCh
4:49 pm on Friday, January 25, 2013
I think that it's great that you were able to make it work. Good for you guys. But do you really believe that you weren't the exception? And do you know that your relationship with your sergeant didn't cause others in your unit to have or cause problems, even if they were imagined? Nobody every accused him of favoritism? Ever? If so, that was a unique group of soldiers/airmen/Marines.
There are pretty strict anti-fraternization rules in the military today so it's safe to say that regardless of your stellar example the military didn't use your experience to establish policy.