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Poll: Biden's 'Malarkey', 'Antics' Most-Memorable Moment of VP Debate

The verdict of influential Democrats and Republicans in SC all rests in the eyes of the beholders.

When we asked influential Democrats and Republicans to say the most-memorable moment of last Thursday night's vice presidential debate as part of our Blue Palmetto/ Red Palmetto surveys, the same answer came up on both sides:

Vice President Joe Biden's response to Rep. Paul Ryan's answers was the most-cited by both parties' backers in South Carolina.

But how they characterized Biden's responses depended on who you asked.

For Democrats, 10 of whom answered our latest Blue Palmetto poll question, Biden was "aggressive" in pushing back against Ryan's answers — calling "malarkey" on one of them within the first portion of the debate.

For Republicans, 26 of whom responsed in our latest Red Palmetto survey, Biden's responses were "antics," "inappropriate" and "crap-eating grins" that made him look like a "fool."

Several Republicans also pointed out Ryan's response to the final question, which included a defense of the conservative party's anti-abortion stance, as a top moment of the debate.

One Republican said: "Ryan's strong statement about the intersection of faith and policy — particularly when it comes to the issue of life" was their moment.

The "winner" of the debate, collected by Patch in the hours following the debate, also fell mostly along party lines. Twenty of the Republicans said Ryan won the debate, with five saying it was "neutral" and one saying Biden won by a slim margin.

Nine of the Democrats said Biden won, by a large margin, while one respondent said the debate was "neutral."

It was the only debate for the vice presidential nominees.

The presidential candidates — President Barack Obama and former Gov. Mitt Romney — will hold the third of their four debates on Tuesday night. The final debate comes next week.

Patrick Goodwin October 15, 2012 at 08:40 PM
Romney flip flops all the time ...i lived in Mass when he was governor...i wasn't impressed at all. The cost of living went up so fast when he was in.He said alot of thing's to get elected ...then changed his mind ...again and again . He's pro life ? Then why did he start Planned parenthood ? He's against Obamacare...his program in Mass was the same thing ...that he started. I still don't know who to vote for .I'm dissapointed in both .
Tom Utley October 15, 2012 at 09:21 PM
There are other choices on the ballott. They probably won't win, but hey, if there's ever been a chance for a good protest vote, this is it.
Carla Sadlier October 16, 2012 at 02:19 PM
The problem with that scenario is that if you cast a protest vote we will end up with 4 more years of Obama and I don't think the country can survive that so like it or not I am going to cast my vote for Romney. I would really love to vote for Gary Johnson but he doesn't have a chance of a feather in a wind storm so there you go!
John H October 16, 2012 at 02:31 PM
This comment may have limited interest outside of Catholicism, however, as a Catholic; I did some research on Vice President Biden’s use of the term, “de fide” during his response to the faith and politics question. He incorrectly applied the Churches teaching that life begins at conception to Catholic “De fide” doctrine. In the Catholic faith, de fide refers to the tenants of our faith, the Trinity, and Jesus is fully Man and God, Etc. We impose those on ourselves only. Life begins at conception and protection of the unborn is part of the moral imperative (de moribus) of the dignity of all human life that the Church teaches us to defend. Vice President Biden is being taken to task somewhat in the Catholic media for his misuse of the term and his political position as stated during the debate. I am posting here just one of the many sources, this being one of the more temperate. http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/2012/10/conflicting-worldviews-on-abortion-shown-during-vice-presidential-debate/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CaffeinatedThoughts+(Caffeinated+Thoughts)
reg October 16, 2012 at 04:51 PM
I'm Catholic, too, Joe. I see the point you're making, but I disagree that "de fide" was inappropriate. There are actual three types of de fide. In your link, the writer points out only one - "de fide divina" - that's a revelation direct from God, the type the writer is noting. There is also "de fide ecclesiastica," though, and that means any solemn declaration from the church itself. And "de fide definita" is a declaration from the pope or high council in the church that might offer more definitive and/or modern application of another rule. Because the Catholic church itself declares life begins at conception, Biden was correct when he stated "de fide" - that's an eccesiastica format of de fide in the Catholic Church; the pope's declaration of that one to have applicability to abortion is a de fide definita. I don't think the writer of the article you list knows that.
John H October 17, 2012 at 05:21 AM
Thinking about it further, I could agree that the Catholic Church’s teaching on life beginning at conception is a de fide doctrine, making it an official tenant of our faith. In the narrow sense of the definition Vice President Biden’s statement is partially true. Is it possible that the sources’ author was making is that there is much more? There exists in Theology a hierarchy of truths wrapped around a core. For inistance, we need to believe that God exists before we can believe in the Trinity. One central theme at this core is the sanctity of human life which de fide doctrine says begins at conception, from which the Catholic teaching emenates, and applies to all of humanity. Vice President Biden in a way correctly states that he cannot impose his will on others but not because of his willfulness but because it is already imposed or endowed by the Will our creator.
stanley seigler October 17, 2012 at 11:01 AM
@John H your thoughts and references/links interesting and educational...however; dont follow most religions' (church's) dogma...but the bottom line (my opine): the GOP (government) should not have control over a women's body...regardless of JOEB's position... and if abortion is a sin then God (HE?SHE?) will punish or forgive... mo/my opine the catholic's dogma has changed over the ages (eg, no more inquisitions)...and bet in time IT's position on abortion will change to the position now taken by liberal DEM progressives...ie; GOPs and the Catholic church are on the wrong side of history...
JoSCh October 17, 2012 at 03:41 PM
If every reasonable conservative person in SC voted for Gary Johnson governor Romney would still win the state. SC is packed full of radicals. Which is funny because Romney would be pretty much the same as Obama as far as effectiveness and policy, just white.
John H October 18, 2012 at 03:47 AM
To Stanley; I commend you on your consistency of message. The absolute truth of the sanctity of human life has been around since the act of creation. I really don't think that the Catholic Church will likely change their position on this imperative anytime soon. I am mindfull that this same concept compels us to oppose and the same time respect those with differences of opinion while God decides who is on which side of history.
reg October 18, 2012 at 05:18 AM
let me (another Catholic) add in again - the Catholic Church has *not* always been against abortion, but on the basis that the unborn was in the same boat of limbo of an unbaptised born child. For centuries, it wouldn't issue any other doctrine on the subject, in fact.
stanley seigler October 18, 2012 at 01:31 PM
@John H as a not Catholic let me add... i begged the immediate question bringing history and God to the table (but wish i could be around to hear what they say)...the question: what do we do now... opine: it's the woman's decision and she has to live with it...the evil ones who use abortion as birth control will always finds a way to murder the unborn... prohibition didn't work...neither will making abortion illegal...overturning roe v wade will not lessen the numbers of abortions...most likely will increase women's health issues resulting from illegal abortions. perhaps planned parenthood and the catholic church could work out a plan...get politics and the extremists out the equation or, if possible, educate them...starting with women can get pregnant if raped and the earth is a little older than 4000-6000 years...perhaps the big bang was, HIS/HER way to create our earth... BTW just wondering what was happening before 'in THE BEGINING'...
JoSCh October 18, 2012 at 05:29 PM
"perhaps planned parenthood and the catholic church could work out a plan...get politics and the extremists out the equation or if possible, educate them." Talk about going against doctrine... the church doesn't have much of a history of compromise.
John H October 19, 2012 at 02:56 AM
Some practices/doctrines of the Church certainly are resistant to compromise. However, it has made *some* progress since the middle ages. http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/p80.htm Please read paragraph 63. For the Catholic Church to retrograde back to an earlier point in the paradigm of dogma regarding human life would be the same as if it would recant the Commission’s Statement and suddenly revert to the belief the that Earth is 4 – 6000 years old and flat like a pancake. To answer Stanley’s question what was before the beginning. We believe there was God, with no beginning and no end, the unmoved mover, the uncreated creator. Then “God created the heavens and earth”. And now here we are at T plus 13.7 billion years give or take, wondering why he/she did it.
stanley seigler October 19, 2012 at 04:50 AM
@JoSCh re: the church doesn't have much of a history of compromise. pray for divine guidance @John H re: wondering why he/she did it... a lot to wonder while we debate same sex marriage...miles to go... HE/SHE must wonder as well...
Robert Kelly October 19, 2012 at 12:26 PM
John, I know this is only nitpicking, but I think the correct term you want to use is "tenet of faith". I know the other term is used in print, but if you look up the meanings of the words, I think you will agree it is a common mispronunciation which made it into print. More importantly, the law of the land is not supposed to be determined by Catholic theology. If you are a believer, then clearly you should not get an abortion. If you are an American, you are not supposed to impose your religious views on people who do not want them.
JoSCh October 19, 2012 at 12:34 PM
@Robert Kelly, great post.
John H October 20, 2012 at 12:24 AM
On the proper use of the term Robert, I’ll have to defer to you. You seem informed on the subject. I think a lot of Catholics agree with you on the relationship between the Church and Government or as you put it “law of the land”. There is a distinction between imposition and opposition. Catholics in general are not in favor of “imposing” their views on others. We look to the Church for moral and spiritual guidance, and then we do as all citizens do, express our views thru our right to freedom of speech and our votes. We also accept the will of the people as the democratic process plays out in our Constitutional Republic. We respect others with other differing opinions.
reg October 20, 2012 at 02:29 AM
off subject, but I'm really impressed at how respectful and thoughtful this thread has continued, especially it being on a subject that's often reduced to angry arguments. TOTH and personal thanks to John H, stanley, Robert and josch -
Robert Kelly October 20, 2012 at 04:23 AM
John, in response to your response to me... I was raised as a Catholic, went to Catholic schools for 12 years, and belonged to my university's Newman Club. I drifted, but I have enormous respect for Catholic theology. On a personal level I cannot imagine my wife or I deciding to have an abortion, but I really believe the laws of the nation cannot be determined by a religious point of view. I believe the lowest level of government control over individuals is the goal. I believe governments are instituted to protect society, not to control it. I think arguing over whether Biden got the semantics right or not is missing the point, and I have no idea what "de fide" categories are. Follow your conscience (and I am sure you do), but let others follow theirs.
John H October 20, 2012 at 09:27 PM
I like the fact that I started out making a side comment regarding de fide doctrine then it developed into a deeper discussion. I learned a lot doing the research and from other posts. Robert, you asked me to follow my conscience and let others follow theirs. I accept that; don’t necessarily have to like it. I also feel compelled thru my conscience to say what I think and vote accordingly when pressed.
JoSCh October 21, 2012 at 03:34 PM
@reg, don't be fooled, mine is a subtle troll. lol

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